Behind the Scenes - Interviews with the ZooTT Crew

Please note that parts of this transcript are automatically generated and contain many inaccuracies

Disclaimer

Eggshell: The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains adult concepts and language and is intended for a mature audience. So if Bronies were a thing before you were, you maybe shouldn’t listen to this show, but you SHOULD go watch that show.

Theme Song

Kynophile: Hey, what can I say?

You’ve got me howlin’ at the moon!

Whoa, don’t you know that love is wild when you’re a zoo?

We’re Zooier Than Thou!

Oh yeah!

Intro

Zooey: Greetings, fellow zoos, and welcome to another magnanimous episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m your definitive host who keeps you engrossed, Zooey, and I will be your consort this evening.

It only took 8 seasons for Toggle to ask me to host an episode. You think I’d be an obvious choice, given my background as a zooey talk show host, but I suppose we were just waiting for the perfect episode suited to my talents. And here it is, dear listeners!

Happy Zoo Pride month! I hope you’ve done something special for your animal friends and partners, and made sure to fill yourself up with human companionship as well! It’s good to remind each other that we’re not alone, and that we have human kindred who actually understand the depths of our love for animals, and who can inspire us to be the best zoos we can be for the ones in our care.

Oh, but there I go giving relationship advice again! I’ll save it for my OWN show. THIS episode has been inspired by an email from Trill, who writes in with A Request to Help Out! Trill writes:

Hello to whoever happens to be reading this, and co-hosts, if read on the show!

I’m Trill, a cat with a microphone and too much time at their keyboard probably. You might recognize my vocals in Season 8 Episode 9, “Howloween 2025!”, singing zipwok’s “I Need You So” (that’s right, I can ALSO do episode citations!). I’m proud to have contributed work to such a great episode of such a great show! Seriously, it’s an honor.

But, even before I first contributed, I’ve been thinking about how I might be able to help out with the show. So, this is an open request, both on a personal level and also as perhaps a public example. We all know that we can send a message in a bottle addressed to “Zooier Than Thou” and know that one day, maybe centuries from now, it will be read by someone who knows ball and will promptly deliver it to the proper recipient. But what comes after that? (Okay, maybe not after a bottle, per se, but after any valid form of contact. Carrier pigeon? Skywriting?) What did the process of actually joining Zooier Than Thou, as any kind of contributor, look like for YOU?

It’s a bit of a meta question, perhaps, but I know that volunteer community media projects always need more, well, volunteers, and I’m sure someone out there listening would find the courage to also reach out upon making this “unknown” known. How does the zoo community’s greatest show really work? How is all this volunteer work coordinated within a full moon’s deadline? And how, dear zoos, can we help make it happen?

Zooey: This is a great question, and not one that can be easily summed up by one experience. So today, I’m donning the role of gorgeous, drag interviewer, and my guests today will be regular contributors you know and love who have hosted more times than I have – though certainly that’s not a high bar. Seriously, 8 seasons? But I digress.

Strap on, dear listeners! Let’s get this show on the road!

Interview with Tarro

Zooey: Our first interview this evening is Tarro. Hello,

Tarro: Hello, hello

Zooey: How are you doing this, evening?

Tarro: I’m doing well. I really love being a part of this show, and so it’s cool to sort of have a behind-the-scenes style episode where we get to sort of talk about our experiences a little bit more, like quote-unquote meta with the audience. so hey. Hi, audience. Nice to see you

Zooey: Yeah, I always– I, I’m always fond of the sort of, uh, waxing poetic about the personal self without a script to work with. It’s very, very earnest, and it’s very fun to do, in my opinion.

Tarro: Agreed. Agreed

Zooey: And I’m very excited to hear what you have to say

Tarro: I’m scared to hear what your questions are

Zooey: Well, shouldn’t be, unless they’re scary.

Tarro: They are scary

Zooey: The first question which, will be pretty much generally asked to each and every one of our interviewees this evening, and that is basically what brought you to Zooier Than Thou?

What is your origin story with this podcast?

Tarro: the short answer I think is I was annoying enough that eventually I got let in. basically I, started my own project, zooey.pub, that you might be familiar with because of Zooier Than Thou. it was really, like, a huge, huge inspiration for me, uh, to like become more active in the community and everything.

and so for one of the first articles that I wrote for the magazine, I reached out to Toggle, like, on like a, like a whim, just like assuming he would say no, to be like, “Hey, do you wanna let me interview you for my magazine?” and because Toggle’s just like the best, he was like, “Yeah, sure, I guess.

Whatever.” Um, and then he made me stay up until really, really, really, really late at night ‘cause he was busy watching some fucking dinosaur movie, um, and kept being like, “Hey, is it cool if I just watch another episode or like watch another like half an hour or whatever?” And I was like, “Yeah,” ‘cause Toggle’s like…

In my brain he was like a huge star, and I was like, “Oh, okay, I guess that’s fine.” but then finally I got to interview him, and I had an amazing time, and it was so cool. But after that we sort of started talking more and became like kind of friends. We met up a couple times.

Zooey: Oh, wonderful

Tarro: Yeah. And, eventually, there were the need for voice actors, as there always is in the show, and I was like, “I can do that.”

and then there was some need for writing here and there, and I was like, “Well, I do certainly write a lot.” so yeah, just sort of like slowly over time kept offering to help out with this or with that, or messaging and just saying like, “Hey, do you need anything?” And, uh, eventually I got up to the point where I got to write my own episode and everything, which was super cool.

And, uh, yeah.

Zooey: Oh yes. Very, very fond of your episode

Tarro: Thank you. I think that, there’s an amazing team here that helps make things better than if I did it myself.

Zooey: Oh yeah, so we are very, very– Ev- everybody here does a very fantastic job with all of the editing and writing and voice acting and all of the little nuances that go into running a podcast. I’m very also, grateful for this team. And I must say, I’m very grateful of your myriad of skills in which you apply to the situations as are

Tarro: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, I, I really feel like I’m living the dream getting to work on a show that meant so much to me when I was sort of just getting into all of this. And like I, I cannot express how appreciative I am to be here. And I know there’s like plenty of other people out here that are huge fans of the show.

I promise you, we always need help. So if like that’s something you wanna do, feel free to reach out.

Zooey: Most certainly, yes. I, I imagine Toggle is very, very adamant about responding to those sorts of emails very quickly and very efficiently.

Tarro: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Zooey: But yes, uh, onto the next question, and this one is pointed specifically towards you, Tarrot, or Tarro. I am now a part of the running gag.

Tarro: it’s seven inches.

Zooey: Seven inches Well, I’m very happy with seven inches. Oftentimes I go larger, but

Tarro: Okay, okay, listen, I’m trying my best.

Zooey: You’re doing a phenomenal job, darling. On to the next question. As the main force behind zooey.pub, you surely got a lot of feedback, positive and negative. What is the best positive feedback you’ve gotten on the magazine, and what is the most valid negative feedback you’ve received?

Tarro: That’s a really good question. Uh, I think we’ve received a lot more negative feedback than positive, at least in my brain. Um, because a lot of the f- positive stuff that we get is just like, “Hey, I really enjoy the magazine,” or, “I really like reading,” or like, “Thanks for doing this,” which is great, but I wouldn’t really consider it like feedback in the same way as like a detailed review of like, I think this sp- specific thing was good.

Zooey: If I may interject, would you imagine that most of the negative feedback comes within people within the community or for people who are zoophobic?

Tarro: I think the better feedback that’s negative comes from people within the community. we certainly get lots of like hate mail, quote-unquote, but that usually tends to not be as valuable as far as like trying to make a better magazine compared to stuff that’s written by people in the community.

Zooey: Naturally

Tarro: but I’d say the best positive feedback I’ve ever gotten is, If you’re a fan of the magazine, you know I really love my philosophical, long, big thinky articles where I talk about like the nature of this or like philosophical musings on that.

I have an article on phantasms, which is like a s- a psychological concept which I love. It’s one of my favorites. But, I’ve always felt really, really weak on my comedy writing. and so I think over time I have been trying to work on that more because I think it is really hard to entertain an audience by always trying to just be serious.

Zooey: Naturally.

Tarro: And I think the best feedback, something that really, really stands out to me is, we have this sort of long-running series called, um, XXXZoophileHater666XXX, who like quote-unquote “hacks” the magazine to like post these articles that are like from the perspective of an anti but like blown up to 1,000.

and it’s been kind of a long-running series, and, the responses to that series ongoing have been so positive. and some of it is like people genuinely who don’t get the joke and are like, “Oh my God, did you guys get hacked?” But I think once people like understand that it is like a character bit, people have really, really enjoyed it, and I’ve had people so many times ask me like when the next one is coming out and whether I’m gonna do more of them.

and so for me, as someone who feels really like shaky on writing comedy, that feels so, so amazing.

Zooey: That is– It is always very rewarding to get feedback on comedy specifically, ‘cause there’s always a lots of sorts of skills you can employ in rhetoric in general that are– People write about skills in rhetoric, and there are certain

things you can glean and strategies, but comedy is an elusive little mistress, and you never really know when you nail it until you get that sort of feedback

Tarro: Oh yeah, no. There’s certainly some articles that I’ve put out where I thought it was gonna be really funny and the response was like, “We don’t get it.” I have told many a joke to many a room and had the room be very quiet and/or confused and/or question my intelligence.

Mm-hmm.

Zooey: And that

is always a very strange feeling

Tarro: Oh yeah, there’s that quote about, uh, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. And I feel like for a long time that’s been my approach with comedy, where it’s like, surely one of these has gotta fucking land, please. as far as negative feedback, I think there’s a couple things, that kinda stand out to me. I really take negative feedback seriously. I think when someone takes the time to really honestly review your product, whatever that product is, when they don’t like it, that is like the best kind of feedback that you can possibly receive because it is an honest look into what a lot of people are probably thinking but not necessarily saying.

like I’m a fan of a lot of different shows or podcasts or whatever, and sometimes they do things that piss me off. But because I like them, I’m not necessarily gonna leave a comment being like, “Oh, I hated this bit,” or, “I hated this part,” or, “I hated this story,” segment. so when someone, without necessarily having like totally negative will, like you just suck, kill yourself, takes the time to like give you feedback, I think that’s really, really important.

and I think the feedback that really, really sort of sticks in my head the most would just be that the magazine needs to feel like it’s like a community project. the more that it feels like Tarro’s blog, the less of an impact it has in doing what it sets out to do, which is to be like a community platform.

and so even when I am writing most of the articles, I try so hard to continually sort of get other people’s perspectives. I’m trying all the time to convince other people to like write articles and stuff. it would be so easy for me to just like crank out my article a week and be done with it. But I think if it doesn’t feel like it’s for the community by the community, it loses so much of the value that it has.

and I think the criticism that always hits me the hardest is when people say like, “Oh, I read this article on your blog,” or, “I read this article…” like, people just assume it’s like my thing.

and it always tells me that I have to get away from that.

Zooey: Yeah, at that point it isn’t even criticism as much as feedback that you are intuiting deeper. Yeah.

Tarro: to me that’s the thing that always stands out the most, that I just like, I, any times I get like too personally like at the head of the project rather than it being about the project itself, that really sucks.

Zooey: that is a very useful state of mind for a community-driven platform, in my opinion at least. There are plenty of projects that, I hold in high regard that are done by people with who are entirely in charge of the project, but this sort of project doesn’t call for that sort of dynamic, and so it is good that you, it is good that it is something you’re working on, in my opinion. This is not an interview question, but have you considered doing more interview style writings on– obviously it is not an auditory platform, but have you considered doing more interviews yourself with others and then posting the scripts of that?

Tarro: Yeah, I really, really want to. we’ve interviewed Toggle, we interviewed Alexandra Seidenberg, Dr. Seidenberg. She’s really cool. we interviewed ZT when he was stepping down from ZooVille. we’ve done interviews here and there. The issue is like, it’s hard to find the right time to interview people and I’ve ideally…

Like if you think about a normal interview, usually it happens around when someone’s like putting something out or they have something they wanna promote, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. but not a lot of people in the community necessarily make a lot of content. so it’s weird to just like go up to someone who’s like maybe sort of big on Twitter kind of, sort of, and just be like, “Do you wanna like chat for a couple hours or whatever and turn that into content?”

Zooey: and then you run into the problem where there, for example, because I operate a lot within the furry fandom, there’s a lot of people who are out privately but wouldn’t probably do that sort of public-facing interview

Tarro: Yeah. Like, I would love so much to do an interview with, like, animal behaviorists or, like, veterinarians and that kind of thing. But, like, even if they came on the magazine and were like, “We hate zoophiles and think you should die,” like, just the fact that they were willing to be in the magazine, I think that was already, like, scary in terms of their reputation.

So it’s hard to, like, get people to do that. although speaking of interviews, , I am hoping… I really think there’s a fascinating disconnect between the sort of quote-unquote ethical zoo community and the people that are just in for, like, zoo porn.

I think that there’s s- like, an overlap of attraction obviously, but like, those are such different worlds with so little crossover. so I’ve been trying for a while now, and I’ve been talking with the guy who runs Art of Zoo, and I’m trying to sit down for an interview with him. and we’ve got something set up, and we’re trying to get it out, um, just ‘cause I think that’s so– it, it’s cool to be able to, like, get a glimpse into that side of things.

And I think it’s interesting ‘cause, like, when you actually talk with those people, they’re not like, “Ah, we just wanna fuck dogs and don’t care about their feelings.” Like, they have their own sort of community standards of ethics that might be different than ours but are still pretty enforced, and I think that’s cool, and I’m excited for that interview to come out.

Zooey: I would very eagerly read that. I think that’s, that’s very interesting

The next question, is one that I came up with. in a perfect world where zoosexuality and zoophilia is both accepted and respected by the wider community of people in the world, what do you see yourself doing in your life?

Tarro: that’s a really good question. I think it’s weird ‘cause I really love what I’m doing now. the job that I have, is something that I’m just, like, extremely passionate about and I really love doing. and I think it would be cool if I could do that with more sort of individual pride and, like, wear, like, a zoo flag pin and be a little bit more open and stuff.

But I don’t know. I don’t think I would necessarily be doing anything different. I guess, uh, here’s the interesting question, right? If zoo sexuality was totally normalized and, like, everyone was happy, I don’t know if I would’ve had a reason to get into activism, which means I don’t know if I would have a name within the zoo community in general, ‘cause it’s not like I’m,

like, doing other activism stuff for other communities that I’m in.

This is just the one that I happen to be really passionate about.

Zooey: Indeed. And it’s a very interesting paradox in as much as the sort of advocacy that goes into, supporting zoophilia is far less accepted than something for, gay rights, for example.

And so it is interesting to see a very stark and needed form of advocacy and jumping into that headfirst and instead of doing something that would be easier. So it is an interesting little paradox

Tarro: Yeah. I don’t spend that much time doing queer advocacy because as much as it is somewhat needed, at the same time, like, there’s just so many people that are already doing that fight that while I’m sure there are things I could contribute, it feels less important than doing it here where there are less voices, like you were saying.

so I think if, the world was already accepting of zoos, I would probably play more League of Legends is the answer.

Thank God for bigotry to pull me away from League of Legends

Zooey: uh, all the zoophobes out there, you have saved a life.

But anyway, we do have an email provided to each of our guests this evening, and, uh, it is not the words coming from the staff, but rather from somebody in the email, and we would like for you to speak to this specific email that we provided.

This one comes to us with somebody with the alias Apollo, and it is as stated: “Hello, I am an ashamed zoophile. I repress my feelings for non-humans and feel in my eyes it is wrong. I know you guys are very accepting of your zoophilia, but it’s hard to like myself for this obvious and inherent part of myself since age eight.

How do you overcome feelings of shame as a zoophile? How do I appreciate myself for this side of myself?”

Tarro: this is a question that gets asked a lot in the community, and it’s important to sort of preface any answer with the fact that this is not a struggle that just Apollo is feeling. Um, I have many friends who are now very, very proud zoos who started from a place of like, “Well, I don’t know if this is really okay.”

Um, or even being like full on anti-zoo, who then sort of had to have that, some kind of like self-experience to be able to look at the situation more rationally, or at least like from the lens of possibly being positive. it’s interesting because if you really, really look at what zoosexuality is, sure it’s like an attraction to animals, but I think intrinsic with that attraction to animals comes to some degree a better understanding of their individual autonomy and the fact that they are f- people that have feelings and desires and wants and needs.

And I think that in this world, so often animals are viewed by the general populace as objects. Um, you know, people use it to describe animals all the time, which is something that really, really frustrates me. but I think as zoos, especially if you’re someone who can feel romantically attracted to an animal as well, you just by default give them so much more respect and so much more individuality.

and so even if it feels weird for you to necessarily say that you’re attracted to animals in like a sexual capacity, if you have the ability to, through your zoosexuality, view animals as people and as more than just objects, I think that’s something to be proud of even in itself. that said, I also think that maybe you should take some time and read some zoo resources and talk to some other zoos and, you know, maybe listen to the podcast some more and just sort of see what other zoos who have gone through the same thing have done and have felt.

Because I think that there’s so much negative pressure against zoos that we are automatically by default bad. Like, there’s this idea of like common sense, right? And common sense would dictate that zoos are bad people, and it’s so hard to get away from that concept of like total social understanding.

But I think the more that you explore different perspectives and you talk to different people and whatnot, the more that you’re gonna see that, common sense isn’t always so common.

Zooey: Mm-hmm. and, and this is piggybacking off of your answer as opposed to pointing you with a stick and getting more of

an answer out of you specifically, Tarro. Oh, with my preference of positions, I think I might be a difficult, But that being said, to speak to Apollo, it is already an incredible milestone that you’ve not only taken the time to listen to this podcast enough to feel inspired to write in, but that you’ve already written in in the first place

Tarro: Yeah, 100%. there are so many great zoo spaces out there. Twitter’s a hellscape, but there’s a great zoo community there. there’s plenty of places on Discord, on Telegram. Uh, there’s our Matrix server. feel free to join that. That’s a plug. just like come in, talk to some people, see how that feels.

It doesn’t need to be that you, that by joining a community that you’re 100% signing off on everything that zoos generally believe. But leave yourself open to have a conversation, and I think you’d be surprised what you hear

No!

Zooey: for joining us, Tara. We hope you have a lovely rest of your evening. Enjoy the rest of the episode

Tarro: Yeah, good luck with the rest of the interviews unless this is the last one, in which case, uh, great job with all the interviews

Zooey: We’ll be back with more Zooier Than Thou right after this!

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Interview with Aqua

Zooey: Well, good evening. I would like to introduce The one, the only, the very, very blue Aqua. Hello

Aqua: Hi, Zooey. Good to finally talk with you

Zooey: It’s an absolute pleasure also. I hope all’s been treating you well this evening

Aqua: I’m good

Zooey: I’m glad to hear it. I’m glad to hear it. Well, how about we jump right into this? I have been recommended by my higher-ups, and, uh, by higher-ups I mean specifically Toggle, that for you specifically this evening, we start with the email that perhaps is the impetus for this entire episode,

Aqua: Let’s do it

Zooey: Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, our, subject who writes in this evening is going by the pseudonym Trill, and the subject in mind is a request to help out. I probably won’t read the entire question, but I do wanna shout out that this is Trill. But their question this evening is, I know it’s a bit of a meta question perhaps, but I know that volunteer community media projects always need more, well, volunteers, I’m sure someone out there listening would find the courage to also reach out upon making this unknown known.

How does the zooey community’s greatest show really work? How is all this volunteer work coordinated within a full moon’s deadline? And how, dear zoos, can we help make it happen?”

Aqua: Oh, goodness. yes. So a few different questions in there. I’ll start with the easy one. How the show is supposed to get made and how it actually gets made is very different. ideally, we have, a month-long schedule, and there’s a week for episode planning, and then another week for recording, and another week for production, and then another one for proofing and fact-checking and last-minute decisions.

That is almost never what happens. We spend between two and three weeks spinning around in our chairs and farting and doing whatever we want, and then we dump a whole bunch of work on our production team at the last minute, and for some reason, they haven’t quit. Yay.

Zooey: To be fair, our editing team did say that tomorrow is the deadline, so technically you and I are punctual this evening. So round of applause

Aqua: Hmm. Yeah, I’ll take it

Zooey: Yeah, we deserved it this time

Aqua: On a more serious note, the reason this show exists is because somebody did something. volunteering for projects, especially weird niche ones like this, stuff doesn’t happen until somebody does something. And I know that sounds dumb, but it’s true. And I’m really happy that after seven or eight seasons, we really haven’t had any trouble finding new people to bring into the fold to contribute new stuff.

There is a process, but it’s not the same for everybody. we all kinda showed up with our own ideas and our own opinions and our own skill sets, and, over time, each of us earned trust and started taking on responsibilities of different kinds, towards making the show. And, the people who wanted to stick around and were good at it, stuck around and continued being good at it and got really good at it. And, uh, that seems to work. were pretty small. I don’t remember if, uh I don’t think I’ve actually taken a proper headcount of the size of the team, but it’s, it’s not huge.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: and, we take turns. Yeah, and so we will rotate through. So one thing that we do try to do is plan out, a calendar year or a season in advance.

Like we’ll– About once a year, we’ll start getting ideas together and figuring out where they fit. some of the higher effort episodes take months of work and planning in order to organize them. not everybody works on every episode, and if you’ve been listening for a while, that’s, you know, that I think that’s obvious, right?

The host change, Toggle is, you know, he works directly on some of the media and production-heavy episodes, uh, like the big tentpole episodes as Togs called them. and then we have other smaller ones which are based on ideas or projects that other people bring in and say, “Hey, why don’t we try this?”

and then there’s, uh, there’s other staff that tend to work more in the background. So that would be, everyone working on production and editing and writing. if there’s a question about how to handle an email that comes in, then that gets forwarded to the entire group so that anybody with experience or opinions on it can contribute to an answer before we give it.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: it’s pretty fluid, but there, it’s not like there’s one way in other than just saying hello and not being a jerk and wanting to take on some task and then completing it.

Zooey: Oh, well put. And actually, you have, uh, successfully segued into the next question I had in mind without even knowing what the question was. Uh, you said that these, uh, sorts of projects have a lot of people coming in who simply want to, do something, as you mentioned. But, uh, oftentimes some people come in because they want to support the zoo community in a general sense, and some people come in with a specific goal in mind.

And my question is: What is your specific goal in mind that you have with working on a podcast such as this? And do you feel as though you have met that goal, or do you think at this point in time you’ve fallen short?

Aqua: I wouldn’t say I’ve fallen short. I’d say I’m just not finished.

Zooey: That’s a good answer

Aqua: you’re right. I did come into this with a very specific goal in mind, because while I wasn’t an active participant in the zoo scenes online until about maybe 2017 or so, I was aware of it. I was just on the periphery and basically looking in through the windows, and I could see a lot of what was happening.

and I, I didn’t really… I mean, people are complicated, and, there was a lot of stuff going on that, I thought was, ultimately self-destructive. particularly in the ’90s and the early 2000s, the s- zoo communities everywhere were really defined by paranoia and secrecy, and that was a result of some stuff that happened even before laws started to change.

so threats of blackmail and, abuse of one’s social networking to, like force certain outcomes with certain people or to hurt animals, that was all happening. And, it, it wouldn’t be for many years after that that I met some people who could explain to me properly what was happening behind the scenes, and it’s…

Oh, some of it was worse than, even I thought it was.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: but there was a, a lot of things that I found really encouraging. And one of them was, the, I think an early effort to, have resources online on personal webpages and on forums that new visitors who were just discovering zoophilia or zoosexuality, if you prefer, and trying to figure out, how that fits into their life or if it’s something that they need to pay attention to.

Something that they could read that wasn’t a horror story or telling them that they were sick or broken, or unlovable. at least giving them something reasonable and, uplifting. But there wasn’t really a lot of that.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: And, uh So that’s where things were for me for a long time. I discovered the existence of zoophilia really early on.

like I was really young. but I didn’t do anything with that knowledge for years afterward, and part of it was like it just wasn’t what I was looking for. I was having a lot more fun with furries and, just enjoying everything that furries were doing and contributing to that. And I understood that they overlapped, especially in the late ’90s and early 2000s, like it was unavoidable.

But for me, they were separate things, and zoophilia was still private, and there wasn’t really a need to talk about it or do anything.

Zooey: I imagine early on there was some, before my time, I’m perhaps not the oldest member of the staff, but, uh, early on in the furry fandom, I can imagine there’s also some degree of paranoia and, wanting to keep that part of yourself hidden to some degree.

But I also think that the banality of that as compared to wanting to keep your zoo, uh, sexuality hidden is also, even back in the ’90s or early 2000s, a very great difference

Aqua: Yeah. it was, it tended to be more open because the furry fandom was so much smaller.

Zooey: That also makes sense,

yes

Aqua: Yeah, so like I think everybody understood that zoophilia was a feature, that existed in the fandom, and it was more common there than it was in the outside world. r- I remember it being much more open and, it wasn’t as though there was never pushback or objections to it.

Of course there was. But it wasn’t the degree of, shall we say, preoccupation, that some furries have with it now.

almost like no one had, had got to it yet

Zooey: that makes a lot of sense

Aqua: That of course is now, that’s very different. you know, today the fandom is much larger. it’s in most ways much better than it was, except maybe in this one area. that furries are still unwilling or unable, uh,

i’m not saying it’s their fault, it’s just there’s not really a lot of honest introspection and so the fandom is kind of stuck, and I started to feel that way around maybe 2016 or so. It just felt like we were going in a circle.

so what ended up happening for me was, at that point, I was comfortable enough with it that I was starting to tell very close friends and I was met with nothing but acceptance and with love, and I was really astonished by that at first and then I realized, okay, there’s a pattern emerging.

why can’t it be this way for more people? Why is this such a scary thing? And then, in 2018 we had the Zoosadism leaks and, that was a really distressing period for me. I ended up having to, sift through all of the files that were released to see whether or not there was anybody in my, friend circles that were involved and have to deal with it.

Thankfully, the answer was no. but to me, it felt like it was an existential threat, not necessarily to zoos, but to the furry fandom, it- like its ability to exist, and to grow and continue, to be this cutting-edge queer space that, functions as, like a third space for so many people. that’s around the time I realized that those two issues are connected, at least for me, and started looking for ways that I could, try to improve the situation.

I felt like I could do something, and I did. And, the way that ended up happening was I, uh, I did about a year’s worth of research to figure out how I could jump in.

that was before Aqua was created.

I started on, the Zooville forum, just after the data breach that caused the original version of it to shut down and get remade.

Zooey: I hate to interject again, but did you get the feeling that, uh, at that point in time it was, uh, very much the same space as you may have heard about before or maybe seen before? Or does it… I, I feel like once a data breach like that happens and you have the website start up again, there’s a lot more cagey folks on there.

Aqua: to me it felt the same, but I wasn’t really a participant in the original version. But, the, the site as we know it now felt like a, an improved version of Beast Forum. And, you know, say what you want about Beast Forum, it was there and it was large, and it got attention from places that we want and don’t want, and that included, some research efforts.

and I was happy to see that continuing with Zooville.

so I spent maybe six months to a year just participating in Zooville, just experimenting, trying things out. And I realized pretty fast, uh, okay, some of this is working. I don’t really like the direction I’m going, but I got noticed by, the owner at the time, that would’ve been ZT Horse, and a few others got invited into, their research coordinating effort, which I still believe is the most valuable function the site has.

and that’s where I stayed. So I’m not hugely active on the forums anymore, but behind the scenes, working on these other projects that will have, like, a lasting impact and be part of the permanent corpus of scientific knowledge. that’s where I live. And, and then later on, I met Toggle, basically slid into his DMs, and we got to talking, and I realized that this was another really useful place where I could have longer form discussions about like the mechanics of, zoophile, socializing, like social networks, and the various pitfalls and the reason why things happen the way that they do, the risks that, we have to work against and try to improve, and that there may be a, a better way to do this.

and to try to focus on positive messaging, because again, that was in short supply, especially after 2018

Zooey: certainly. certainly. Well, I f- I personally have interacted with your work, I do feel as though you are succeeding on that goal very, very effectively

Aqua: Well, thank you

Zooey: But yes, I suppose that brings us to our next question. w- what do you think at this moment in time the all-encompassing purpose of the zoo movement, is or should be, uh, in regards to advocacy and such? And do you think that, uh, this sort of advocacy has an endpoint that you will see in your lifetime in regards to general acceptance and respecting of relationships with an animal partner?

Or do you think that that is something you’re going to continuously strive to work for throughout your entire life?

Aqua: I think there are certain things that we can accomplish in the span of a few years, but, some of what I want to see happen requires turning, society’s relationship with animals, like the human-animal model completely upside down. And that is probably a task that I will not live to see the end of. There is so much economic and social and moral interest around this issue I’m uncomfortable drawing parallels to, gay rights into LGBTQ, activism in general because that, most queer people don’t really want us to be associated with them. and I wanna give them that space because whatever progress I make as a zoophile, I don’t want it to come at their expense. but the parallels are there, and I think the timeline is gonna end up being similar but probably longer, because animals are different things to different people depending on what kind of animal we’re talking about. an animal can be a companion, it can be a pest, it can be food, it can be, for labor. so humans have a really complicated relationship with animals that contradicts itself. And, we also don’t have the most consistent or rational approach to our sexuality that we probably could have.

It would probably make everybody’s lives a lot better if we could just simplify and accept that, the breadth of human sexuality is huge.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: but you know, if you dare to place, zoophilia at the center of all these issues, then you can just pick a direction and start walking and, you will eventually get somewhere.

You will find something that you can change that will hopefully improve or make changes in other areas or other domains easier.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: and those are the short-term goals.

Zooey: in that regard, if you can’t personally be responsible for the changing of a law overnight, then it is nevertheless still important to change somebody’s mind or at least help a younger zoophile who’s doubting something feel better about themselves. I do also– I, I think that it’s a noble pursuit

Aqua: So for now, what I’m trying to focus on is, I’m trying to make zoophilia as we know it, which is different than what is on the six o’clock news, and what you might observe, in incarcerated populations. I want to make that other unseen community visible and available for study and for dialogue.

And that’s one of the few areas in society right now where, curiosity can override disgust.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Aqua: because disgust is what motivates a lot of these decisions, especially if they’re made quickly. But scientists are curious people, and if the funding is there and the interest is there and the people are there, to be heard, and recorded and tabulated, then eventually we will have a body of work that we can draw on, which will hopefully attract more attention from more places, including the media.

And we can start to point to this and say, “Look, this is us. Here we are.” and maybe at some point in the legal sphere, we can get ourselves at the table, and off of the menu.

Zooey: I see the vision

Aqua: this is long game stuff. This is not, I’m gonna go have a salad for dinner. Like, I’m totally gonna go do that, and that single act will have helped animals more than I think a lot of anti-zoo activism has ever done. But, these are very long-running tasks,

Zooey: It is not the work of an individual, and the sorts of steps you take now will not be the final steps taken

Aqua: Right. So for now, if we have this research happening and we also have positive messaging that, is more representative of our true selves, and we all get to speak from our hearts and connect with somebody else who’s struggling with it, and we get to improve their life in some measurable way, I might be focusing on the human side, but ultimately it helps animals

Zooey: That makes sense. one last question, for you this evening. . But if you were suddenly shrunk down to the size of an average house cat and left to your devices in the middle of the wilderness anywhere on Earth, with which creature would you entreat upon yourself to stay with before the cold winter comes in order to stay warm?

Aqua: Oh, wow. Okay, so bedding down for the winter, and it can be anywhere on Earth

Zooey: I suppose I’ve sort of boxed you in a mammalian space for this question, but I am sticking to it

Aqua: Well I think I would try to make friends with some beavers

Zooey: Oh, very well put. Yes

Aqua: Yeah, I’m assuming that whatever creature I am, has a waterproof coat so that I don’t just freeze if I get wet.

Zooey: Yes. part of the question insinuates that you would also probably transform into this question, but it’s a little bit less colorful. I say, “If you could transform into any animal, which would it be?” Oh, but yes, that is implied.

Aqua: Yeah. Okay. I think it would be beavers. Yep. communal living, pretty strong work ethic, You know, they were builders

Zooey: Fairly safe habitat

Aqua: Yeah, I think that’s what I would do. I’m happy

Zooey: All

Aqua: that answer

Zooey: Secret last question. Have you seen Hoppers yet?

Aqua: Uh-oh. Uh, I have

Zooey: Okay. And did you like it?

Aqua: as a Pixar movie, yes. I thought the art was wonderful. I don’t know that I love the environmental messaging, but, you know, as a movie for kids or adults who wanna turn their brains off for 90 minutes, yeah, it’s great

Zooey: Okay, yeah, I, I think I agree with that sentiment also. Just the beaver talk reminded me of, uh, where have I seen beavers recently? Oh, yes

Aqua: Yeah. Hoppers is interesting, right? ‘Cause it’s, it’s the latest movie in a long string of like environmental messaging kinds of movies going all the way back to like FernGully.

so I don’t know that it really stands up to the quality of some of those, but it is very pretty and, it’s very funny at times, and it, it’s self-aware

Zooey: I believe, uh, that is all of the questions I prepared this evening, and I am very, uh, very happy to have been able to chat with you without an actual script dictating the things I say

Aqua: Well, thanks for having me

Zooey: Yes. Thank you very much for being had! Ahhh. Were we lying, when we told you that Aqua was so well rounded, dear listeners? Hmhm.

Up next on my little to-do list of cast and crew, is Eggshell. According to our Maneframe, Eggshell’s mind contains more knowledge than 10 GameCube memory cards. When we decided as a team that the entire premise of this episode was going to be INTERVIEWING the cast members about how they got involved, Eggshell, in her infinite decision making, said that she would love to do a brief monologue, instead of doing an INTERVIEW as was the aforementioned premise of the entire fucking episode. So. Awoo. Hugs and scritches. This is what she had to say.

Zoo Pride 2026 Monologue

Eggshell: Zoo Pride Week 2026. What a year to be alive in. What a year in history to exist in as a queer person.

I am very into pride, like, very visible forms of pride, I am all about the flags, the symbols, I am into queer orientations being spoken about by name. Somebody saying, “I am so fucking gay,” “This is so fucking gay,” “We are so fucking gay.” In all sincerity somebody saying, “My fursona’s ass is even more trans than my already very trans ass is,” I am so happy to see all of that, I am so happy to hear all of that with my queer canine ears, it truly ignites me and puts a spring in my pawsteps.

Let’s imagine… Imagine you’re in, let’s pick a state from the middle, let’s say, Wisconsin, and, you attend a gay pride parade for the first time. And in some ways it’s the most extant, real, seen in the world, you’ve ever felt. There are people here with BISEXUAL pride flags! Wow! This label that has always existed as somewhat of a SECRET label, worn tucked into the inside of your clothing, hidden up a sleeve or inside of your jacket, here there are people who are openly flaunting this thing. But, you still feel like, mmm yeah but I’M still missing from this picture, I’m still not here. Bisexual is ONE thing, but, there’s other stuff about me that isn’t so… palettable? And then, finally, after quite a lot of this pride parade has come through and gone by, you spot a couple of people in fursuit heads, and NOW it feels like you’re represented. It’s that extra touch, it’s ACTUALLY saying THE key words out loud. For furries to be seen in Pride, SOMEONE has to put on the fursuit head. Maybe it looks silly to do. But that visibility matters. And besides bisexual, furry, mmmmaybe there’s other things that still haven’t felt visible. Visibility I think opens other doors, be it to an enjoyable social life with others who respect the zoo of it all in you; be it opening the door to your own SELF acceptance, your own self image; be it allowing your relationship the dignity, the worth, of standing up for. Yknow this isn’t just ‘my dog’ you’re addressing, this is my equal. I think the Words, exploring this intellectual, emotional space of zoophilia, is important for sssssomeone to do? So, hello, Zoo Gang, I’m a zoophile, and I like dogs.

I think about the mornings I’ve spent, in my life, waking up, myself and a giant dog wrapped up arm in arm, sleepy drooly muzzle against sleepy snoring muzzle, our breath one heavenly cloud pooled together in the air around us as our bodies serenely rise and fall against one another, and fingertips of sunlight walk their way over us, shining over his beautiful coat of hair, minute by minute, as our shared indulgance of sleeping in passes along.

I think of running jokes I’ve had with dogs, putting on my shoes to go walk them and then just pretending to fall asleep right there as I’m tying up my laces, and they bark SUPER LOUD at me and wag and tell me to fuck off and hurry up already.

I think the life of zoophilia, of living with a romantic partner of another species, is so dense, so rich with fascinating moments. And I think if you add this clandestine layer on top of it, this raging against a deeply unjust system, yeah there’s something in there that appeals to me.

I am proud to be a zoophile. And I will never shut the fuck up about it.

Zooey: Eggshell, prior to her involvement in ZTT, was indeed already a zoophile, already an avid podcast listener at large, and already a listener-to of the ZTT podcast specifically, since the show’s first season. She began her involvement in the show by first sending polite and compliment-rich DMs to certain existing members of the team, during her brief tenure on the platform that was then known as Twitter, where she was using her dogkissing, typing, and screenshotting talents to post images of zoo poetry that she had written. As soon as DMs between Eggshell and Toggle were established, Eggshell began sending Toggle scripts for skits that we could use on the show if we wanted to. And more scripts. And yet more scripts.

Her first script that actually made it to air in the following weeks was featured in Season 4, Episode 6, with her skit entitled Solitaire Tournament; This episode also featured a zooey sonnet she had penned, reviving the Zoo Poetry Theater segment from the show’s earlier episodes. Two episodes later in Season 4 Episode 8, for our Howloween 2022 program, Eggshell provided the team with a skit featuring Sniffsnoof the Werewolf, which really, really landed. Mmmmmmm. Smell. Going forward from there, she was brought onto the team as a writer, tuning up scripts in our editorial process and writing yet more scripts of her own.

She also has a thing for dogs, as you’ve no doubt gathered from the dog-centric nature of our best work, penned by our talented yet single-minded writer. It turns out her 10 GameCube memory cards are entirely filled with dog fur that has shed all over her house.

Our next subject, dear listeners, is also something of a dog liker, which, if you were keeping score at home, does not narrow down which Zooier Than Thou contributor I am talking about in the slightest. The affinity for felinity may be a greater clue.

Interview with Lovecat

Zooey: Tonight for our, next interview, we’re going to be interviewing Lovecat, the one and only.

How are you doing this evening?

Lovecat: I’ve been better but worse. How are you?

Zooey: I’ve been doing quite all right. busy with work, but otherwise very happy to be a part of this project

Then I guess without further ado, let’s jump right into the questions. the first question we have for you this evening, my lovely Lovecat, is: What was your journey that led you to being a collaborator on this podcast? What sorts of things specifically are you responsible for or would you like to be responsible for if given the opportunity?

Or what sorts of things would you like to do but you haven’t done yet?

Lovecat: I got started with the podcast back in, I think, 2019. I wrote in, I think it was after the first episode. I wrote a really long letter of appreciation, because I was completely surprised by it. at the time I had been sort of thinking about, doing a zoo podcast myself, but, I literally hadn’t even gotten past thinking what that might look like when Zooier Than Thou was announced and, I was like, “Jesus, somebody beat me to it.”

I had, only just recently, learned that, Fausty existed. I didn’t know anything about him. I had, accepted that I was a zoo around puberty. and then somewhere around my 20s, um, I kind of regressively repressed it for a while until my, uh, until my early 30s and, you know, started getting back into the online community and, I wanted to find community and, did.

You know, I found, well, BeastForum was, was just on its way out then, and then ZooVille didn’t really feel at home in either of those places. Got on Telegram and, was involved in a couple of groups.

Zooey: That seems to be the state of it nowadays lately, is I don’t see, just in as much as my experience is concerned, I do feel as though a lot of stuff is now mostly on Telegram as well,

Lovecat: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Zooey: and such

Lovecat: Yeah, it definitely seems to be the, the modern hub. and when I wrote that letter, I guess it, touched, Fausty and Toggle pretty well because they, uh, they contacted me, and we talked through email just a couple of exchanges, and then they invited me over to, uh, to Te- I didn’t even know what Telegram was at that point.

And, so I started talking directly to them and, at first just talking to Doug and, you know, getting some more background on, on his story and, I think it was just, uh, two or three episodes in that they asked me to actually start doing things on it, you know, like doing voices for skits and such.

And, pretty soon found myself being asked to host an episode, which was pretty nerve-wracking. that’s kinda how it went. And the more I got involved and, you know, the more I started, thinking about what it is to be a zoophile in the world, which was something that had always kind of bugged me, is that I always felt like there was something deep and important to it, but I didn’t really know how to how to articulate what those things are.

And, as you know, Fausty was very good at that, and a lot of our team actually. And, um, it’s been really interesting how we’ve all kind of, collectively developed our understanding of, um, zoophilia and, uh, and what it means and who we are in the world and, you know, how we relate to each other and to animals and to, um, society, I actually remember meeting another zoo, early after I joined the podcast team He, he wasn’t listening to the, the podcast, at least at the time. And, um, when we were talking about it, I remember, talking about like zoo history and I– he just kind of looked at me, he’s like, “Well, what is there to know?”

You know? And I was like, “Well, I don’t know, but there’s definitely stuff. We, we, we don’t exist in a vacuum, you know, we’re, we’re part of the story too.”

Zooey: We’re afflicted with the curse of, uh, oral storytellers in as much as we want to keep ourselves secret, for I imagine back in the day there wasn’t that much that was written down

Lovecat: Right. Well, there’s kind of the double-edged sword of, you know, or the twin challenge of us needing to, to keep ourselves to ourselves and also, all evidence of us being erased. you know, and, and we have been largely erased, you know, from storytelling and from art and from history.

You know, there– A little bit of stuff survives, but, uh, you know, I mean, how many zoos have ever existed who, you know, just, were not acknowledged for, you know, who and what they were? Um, you know, and just, uh, if you, if you don’t have that, then as far as anybody knows, you’re not a part of the story, you know

Zooey: So yeah, I suppose you, you did a marvelous job of answering my very, very long-winded question that I posed as a series of questions. not only did you paint your picture with your journey through the podcast, but also the goal of cataloging our history is definitely something that’s very important to you.

Lovecat: Yeah, I’m sure that being long-winded was also a quality that, uh, that attracted me to, to Fausty.

Zooey: For me as well. Uh, I have the habit of being long-winded inasmuch as I sometimes ramble to try to find my next point in the middle of a sentence that takes five or six minutes to actually get to that point, but Fausty did it far better than I do. this next question comes from Toggle specifically, actually, and it is, uh, going to be read verbatim so that way I don’t get too long-winded. You had one of the first emails, if not the first email read on the podcast, making you possibly the oldest contributor to the podcast besides the original staff.

As such, you’ve seen people come and go since season one, and you yourself have come and gone a few times over the years. What do you think contributes to the most to a sort of burnout that might come up with working on a project like this? The stuff that saps the energy away from contributors and causes them to take a step back from projects from time to time.”

Lovecat: I mean, that’s hard for me to say, since you know, I think there’s different causes. You know, um, Toggle kind of, exactly by preference, had to man the helm for years. You know, he had to be the one to, corral everyone, to motivate everyone, to make sure that everyone was getting what they needed to do done, to edit the thing, to do all these things.

And, you know, I know that that caused burnout for him. for me, to be honest, it’s, like I said kind of before we actually started recording, I feel like I’ve pretty much said what I have to say, both on the podcast and on social media.

so part of it for me comes from just kinda feeling that I don’t really have much more that I need to express, which can make it a little bit difficult to keep going and keep up the enthusiasm. And then there’s also just, you know, private life just in regards to private life is

Zooey: most often than not the thing that sort of contributes to that sort of burnout. I wouldn’t call it burnout for me personally, but there have been extended periods of time where the things that I need to do in my life have taken priority,

Lovecat: yeah. And, and I think that everybody does that, you know, when the, the challenges of, of life outside of the project, become your main focus in life because they, they kind of have to, uh, it can make it really difficult to concentrate on a project like this. And that’s definitely happened too.

So my focus has, just changed to a different sector of activism, in which, I have done some good, and am, still working at it.

it actually has been, personally satisfying and gratifying in, uh, a similar way to, my work on the podcast has been. but it, takes all that activist energy that I was putting in here and, and putting it over there instead. So, I’ve more just, changed you know, the area of focus

Zooey: as you were saying, if you do the same thing over and over again and tell the same story over and over again, that is useful to somebody who’s perhaps coming to the podcast for the first time. But, uh, for people who have listened to it, since the beginning, that’s sort of– Uh, not, not that that sort of thing gets boring by any means, but it doesn’t necessarily help to, tackle the same topic with the same agenda every time.

and it is interesting and also marvelous that you found another avenue for advocacy.

Lovecat: Yeah. you know, it, it doesn’t bother me as much as it might otherwise because we have such a strong team. Steeeve and Tarro and, uh, and Aqua and everybody, they have no shortage of important topics and insight and, you know, fresh perspectives to bring to these things. So, I don’t have any worry that, that me not being active, you know, lately, and not to say that I might not in the future, who knows?

But like, things didn’t fall apart just because my focus went elsewhere. You know, things didn’t fall apart when Fausty passed away. Like, we have a strong core team of people who are dedicated to making this happen.

Zooey: Exactly

Lovecat: you know, I know that we pat ourselves on the back a lot, but we fucking deserve it because we’re killing it.

Zooey: Yes, it is not only the team that– just the fact of the matter that a team exists in order to help play catch up if somebody isn’t able to do something, but the team in and of itself is strong and has the collaborative energy that I imagine a lot of other teams or a lot of other podcasts, lack. Not other zooey podcasts, but other podcasts in general that work as a team.

it is very refreshing to be a part of a committed team

Lovecat: Yeah. like a lot of times there, there can be like one linchpin person in a community or an effort, and if that person, quits, drops out, dies, whatever, then the whole thing can fall apart, and that has not happened with us. And, um, I think that in itself is, you know, really instructive.

you know, that’s what you gotta do. You’ve gotta look around until you find, you know, the people who are, in it for sincere reasons, you know? And as long as you have them, you know, it’s like the, the whole thing is gonna keep going

Zooey: Yes. I think that makes a lot of sense too.

it, it speaks to just like having a big cast means that there’s gonna be a bit of rotation and that’s just a natural process

Lovecat: And I think that’s good for people listening too, you know?

I mean, I, I would want to hear all the same people all the time

Zooey: Mm-hmm. I like hearing my own voice, but I don’t need to do it every time.

Lovecat: Well, if my voice sounded like yours, I’d like hearing it too.

Zooey: Oh, I appreciate the flattery. my next question: what do you think the all-encompassing purpose of the zoo movement is or should be at this moment in time as a whole in regards to advoc- advocacy? And do you think that the sort of advocacy that you have in mind or perhaps you speak to in a moment here has an endpoint, a specific goal that you will meet within your own lifetime?

Or do you think this is going to be something that you work on for perhaps the entirety of the time that you are alive, knowing that the endpoint will be in the future?

Lovecat: I mean, I honestly, like Star Trek is kind of the, the endpoint for, I think a lot of, progressive-minded people,

“Star Trek” is far in the future, though. Like, I don’t see that happening in, in my lifetime. At the same time, y- you know, massive change can happen a lot more quickly and a lot sooner than, than you expect. but I mean, ultimately, I think the, the goal of, of our activism is kind of the, the same goal as, um, as a lot of, uh, lot of other activism.

And it’s basically universal justice, you know, it’s, it’s treating other living beings, ourselves and, and all others, with, uh, decency and respect It’s basically the, you know, the same things as all other justice movements.

You know, it’s just applied very narrowly in our case because we’re speaking from our own experience. But, it, it’s the same character as the rest of that picture.

Zooey: Mm-hmm. Welfare and also respect and also legal protection in a capacity, and the list goes further from there. But, uh, yeah, the sorts of th– that I think somebody in a previous interview mentioned that wanting to make a parallel to the LGBT+ movement in general, but y- the, the general idea of, legal protection, respect of society as a whole, and also just a mind towards wellness and altruism

Lovecat: Yeah. I mean, because it’s the same basic attitude underlying each of those movements, right? You know, it’s like the LGBT movement is, is restricted to LGBTQ people, but the underlying motivation for it is not restricted to anybody, the same as racial justice, the same as everything else, and, and the same as, you know, as our underlying motivation as well, you know. just to treat each other with kindness, respect, and, you know, ultimately love if we can get there

Zooey: That’s marvelous, yes. It is int- it is very difficult to imagine that the slow, methodical work you do shall yield results within your lifetime, and I suppose I’m making you try to read a crystal ball without having any expertise in reading crystal balls.

But it is difficult to imagine that the sort of slow, methodical work manifests in one’s own lifetime

I have one last, question for you this evening, and that question is as such: If you woke up and out of nowhere you found that you were magically bestowed a tail attached to your body, what sort of tail would you be most comfortable with and why? And you can’t say no tail,

Lovecat: I would never say no tail.

I would probably go with a monkey’s tail. it’s close enough in, in its appearance to a cat tail that I, I would be fine with that, but it’s also prehensile and I would love to be able to like hold and grab and pick up stuff with my tail. That would be fucking dope

Zooey: Goodness, every time I have my hands full, that is a thought that goes through my head.

Lovecat: Oh, I’m sure it is

Zooey: Every time I have my paws full, I should say. But yes, that, that’s, that is a very good answer. I like that answer I suppose that wraps up our interview for this evening, but I very much appreciate having had a chance to speak with you again, Lovecat. It is always a pleasure

Lovecat: Hey, likewise, zooey. You made it easy

Zooey: Thank you very kindly. You make it easy to make it easy

Lovecat: Oh, you

Zooey: Then I suppose I hope you have a lovely rest of your evening and, uh, another healthy, hearty shout out to the editing team who has already told us in the group chat that we are shouting them out too much this episode

Lovecat: We can’t help it. I mean, when they do such a killer job

Zooey: They do a phenomenal job!

Up next, in the spirit of going behind the scenes and learning what makes the podcast tick, Toggle dug deep into the pits of our podcast project files to find unfinished odds and ends, musical sketches that never made it to the air. Don’t be surprised if you hear any of the following musical selections in the coming years – sometimes it’s good to go back and dust off old files and give them new life. So without further ado…

Zooey Musical Sketchbook

(Mostly instrumental, except for…)

Eggshell: Dog kissin’!

Dog kissin’!

Sloppy, drool-y dog kissin’

Mwah! Mwah! Mwah! Bestiality!

Dog kissin’!

Dog kissin’!

Sloppy, drool-y dog kissin’

Mwah! Mwah! Mwah! Bestiality!

In the mornin’

And in the park when the sun’s gone down…

Zooey: Welcome back, fellow zoos! Hmm, one of those songs was not like the others. Here’s some fun trivia: Eggshell likes to send us voice messages at two in the morning, when her neighbors are undoubtedly thrilled she’s playing guitar and yelling about kissing dogs. Another bit of Zoo Musical Trivia: In the Season 3 finale version of Howling at the Moon, yours truly performs a trumpet solo!

Interview with Toggle

Zooey: I am a Dane of many talents.

But I am the leader of interviews this evening, and I’m going to round it up with one last interview How are you doing, Toggle?

Toggle: Good evening. I am fantastic, never better.

How about you?

Zooey: Oh, I’m doing swimmingly.

all has been well by me. I’ve been having wonderful conversations with the people on this podcast, and it’s been just an absolute thrill to talk off the cuff in this more low-key manner. That sort of thing appeals to me, and it’s been very fun to be able to engage with that, especially with you now

Toggle: Yeah, I’m glad we finally got you to actually be a host this time.

Zooey: Yes, it’s been very, very fun. I hope to do it more in the future.

Toggle: noted.

Zooey: Well, let’s, uh, without further ado, let’s jump right into it. Question number one. I will not ask you what brought you to the podcast because you brought you to the podcast as one of the original members. However, this question is sort of related to that theme in a degree. How long have you considered getting into zoo advocacy before you actually took the plunge and got right into it?

Toggle: What a great question because the answer is not very long.

I sort of got introduced to even the idea of zoo advocacy in I think around 2016, and that was during the OpBeast campaign. I think it was

Yeah, this is when basically there was a huge push in Europe to get, bestiality, put on the law books as illegal. And there was a lot of talk about animal brothels, especially Danish animal brothels, of which there was never actually any evidence that this was, like, a huge thing.

it was kinda crazy the kind of things that they would post, ‘cause all of it was absurd, just absolutely absurd. Like, millions of animals are, killed every year through these animal brothels, which just is not possible.

Zooey: Oh, yes. Y- yes, now that I’m recalling the situation, it is very reminiscent of the Satanic Panic in a degree

Toggle: Right. So they were basically trying to get those laws passed, That’s when I found out there were zoos on Twitter who were doing any sort of activism, and so I started following them and kind of started being a little bit more open on my own account, my personal account about being a zoo. and that didn’t really go anywhere. fast-forward to 2018, the Zoo Sadist leaks come out, and suddenly there’s a lot of, discourse surrounding zoophilia, zoo sadism. Are they the same thing? Are they any different?

and then Doug pops out and is like, “Hey.” I guess he had just gotten out of jail.

He’s like, “This book’s coming out. Here it comes.”

and so I got the book, and the book is kind of what inspired me to start thinking in that direction.

Zooey: Where did you first acquire the book? I don’t think I’ve ever recalled seeing it in Barnes & Nobles

Toggle: No, it’s, it was never in Barnes & Noble. I had followed, Cross Species Alliance in 2016 during the Op Beast stuff, but they had stopped posting because Doug was in jail, so there was no one to post. I assume that’s what happened. I think there was someone else that might’ve been managing it for a little bit.

But basically, I already was following Cross Species Alliance, and then suddenly it started posting, and it posted a blog post from Fausty about the book. and I just, I felt inspired to go buy it and read it. and that led me to meeting Fausty. and then, you know, we were, we were local, so we started meeting up in person.

and around January of 2019, Fausty was basically like, “I don’t know how long I have to live right now.” That kinda quickly more deepened the bond ‘cause we started having really personal conversations about, you know, life and death.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: and then one day he was like, “ What do you know about podcasts?”

And I’ve told this story before. it’s in, there’s a “Zooey” magazine article, et cetera, et cetera, from there. But I wasn’t really doing anything publicly until the podcast. That was really just kinda thrusting into it because I was really inspired by the idea of what the podcast was going to be, based on the pitch, and I wanted to be a part of it.

Zooey: And it.

was more important that you do something for the sake of having it be done than to constantly deliberate how it should be done and when it should be done and such

Toggle: I just felt like I wanted in on that ride, I guess.

it felt like something that I could do. Like suddenly there was an opportunity, like I, I saw a thing that I knew how to do in service of activism, which I guess I hadn’t seen yet, you know? and so I jumped on it.

Zooey: We’re very glad that you did. I believe that was also shortly, um, 2019 is I think when you also first approached me about,

Toggle: Yeah, you were there from the very beginning.

Zooey: yes, it’s very strange to think

Toggle: You, I had… Right, you were there on the ground floor.

Zooey: is a, that is a thousand years ago.

Toggle: oh my God, I know. I can’t believe it’s so, like a, feels like a decade.

Zooey: almost is

Toggle: yeah. Very different time of our lives. But we jumped on it. I, I got a few friends together, and you were one of them, and we just kind of did it, and we kind of haphazardly figured out how it was gonna work.

Zooey: Well, I, for one, am very glad that you were the one to spearhead the project. It’s been very fulfilling to work on and to see be in the world

Toggle: Oh, thank you so much. And I’m really excited that, like, Season 8 is, like, the, the rebirth of Zooey.

Zooey: Yes. All of the personal things I need to do in my life are finally i- or in order to a degree.

Toggle: Perfect. It’s good timing

Zooey: Yes. I’m very glad to be back. So this next question actually is a bit of a mashup between both the original Trill email and a question from another collaborator that was recommended to me that I ask you from, uh, Aqua actually, as it turns out.

So here’s the morphed question: How is all of this volunteer work coordinated within a full moon’s deadline? And to follow up, what sorts of things do you personally look for when trying to find new contributors for the “Zooier Than Thou” podcast? And what sorts of things should a potential contributor expect in regards to our schedule and the deadline and such?

Toggle: Ooh, well that’s a three-parter question. Okay.

Zooey: I had to throw my actual words in there too. Just

Toggle: so let’s start with the, with Trill’s questionnaire, which is like, what does it t- how is it, like, organized and how does it happen in a full moon cycle? we break down all of the work by the moon phases, which is really convenient. so an episode comes out, we have a week of rest, uh, then the next moon phase we have writing week, and then we have recording week, and then production week, and then the, the episode comes out.

So that’s like the ideal way of how it should be structured. The real- reality is that we don’t always get things done in the week they’re supposed to be done. So it’s got this bit of a structure, but wrangling cats is pretty hard, and that’s kind of what it is when it comes to getting a podcast done.

So,

Zooey: Naturally. I promise to be very behaved the next month in regards to what I’m

Toggle: much. so This is the difficulty of having a project like this because it’s really high effort. I remember when I asked my friend who did podcasts, like, “What, what do you, what is your advice about, you know, podcasting?” And he said, “Don’t do it,” because it’s just an absurd amount of work.

and I think the hard part about it is that none of us are paid, and so it’s very hard to make it a pr- like the number one priority to get things done. And a lot of getting the podcast out on time is staying on top of people, asking for things to come in when they need to come in. honestly, that position, just the guy who wrangles things, that alone is the full-time job.

Like, we could have someone just do that and they would have their work cut out for them,

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: because it’s, it’s tough to do.

Zooey: I think podcasting is a different beast altogether because of the work that you need to do is both specific but also needs to happen when multiple people get together. I do a lot of things within a artistic capacity with the theater, and the rehearsal schedule for a theater and putting together a show in that regard is always a little bit…

You have a plan in mind, and then the last week comes and you’re like: “Oh, I have not done as much of my plan as I wish I had.”

Toggle: Right. It is a little bit like that. Yeah, it’s like, uh, it’s, it’s a dysfunctional play where you are spending a month getting ready for something that you’re gonna do once

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

And a majority of the work is going to take place within a span of five days.

Toggle: Right. Oh my God. you know, some of the stuff that has come out, We’ve gone into overtime, on the last week, like the day before it comes out type of thing to get it done. I have taken off work, like used actual PTO in order to get things done on time. it takes a lot of dedication. and, you know, Aqua kind of gets really frustrated because Aqua’s like, “We should have work banked so that things are done and we can just pull from them when we need them.

We should be scheduling what the next season is gonna look like the year before, have every month planned out.” Uh, we’ve done that a couple of times, but most of the time we’re just flying by the seat of our pants and trying to get shit done, and that doesn’t leave a lot of room for wiggle room. There’s no wiggle room, so,

Zooey: the week of rest does not automatically imply a week for artistic brainstorming, I surmise

Toggle: Right. you know, sometimes we violate the rule and we work a little bit during that week. But a lot of times it’s like, “Hey guys, it’s writing week. What are we doing?” Uh, and then it’s, “Hey guys, it’s recording week. We haven’t written anything yet.”

Zooey: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Toggle: Oh, God. I will admit, you know, in the past I’ve been very on top of stuff. Like, I was the guy who got things done. you know, if, if we didn’t have enough voice actors, you know, I’d pull out the AI and do all the voices that we hadn’t gotten done yet. you know, produce it. I’d do some writing if I couldn’t get the writing done, et cetera.

But now that I’ve taken a step back, I’ve, become the guy who gets things in late.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: I’m the asshole now.

Zooey: you’ve, you’ve done the work on the opposite end. You can relax a little bit now with, on this side of things.

Toggle: it’s– to have the drive to do that. This goes into the next question, like what am I looking for in a contributor?

Zooey: Mm-hmm. Yes, you’ve already done a pretty good job of outlining what sorts of things would be expected of a contributor and what the life of a podcast would look like should one become a contributor.

Toggle: Yeah. what I’d be looking for in a contributor is someone who is consistent, who does quality work, and who can get things done on time. Uh, and those three qualities together are not easy to find, actually. It’s usually like a pick two type of thing. and usually it’s a pick one type of thing.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: But it takes a lot of dedication to get it done, and some contributors that come to mind who would fit that bill, Eggshell, uh, comes to mind. Eggshell would… is very prolific, always writing, always doing something creative and just never stopping. It’s, it’s kind of mind-blowing. she will get things done, like, early sometimes.

Uh, she’s also able to communicate, “Hey, this is too much for me right now,” or like, “I can’t contribute to this episode because I’ve got other things that I’m working on.” I don’t know. And that’s really, really important because we can plan around that and know when we’re gonna have people available.

Another person who’s really good like that is Ryder, actually. Ryder, actually stepped in because I think it was either season five or six, somewhere in there, we were like, “I think we’re gonna have to, like, change the schedule of ‘Zooier Than Thou’ and come out less frequently.” And Ryder was like, “Absolutely not.

Here’s my credentials. I can do this.”

and he has not let us down. always communicates ahead like, “Hey, these are the days I’m completely unavailable. I’m doing this or I’m doing that.” Um, so we can plan around when we need to get things to Ryder, and then Ryder very consistently just gets it done.

He’s like, “Okay, here’s… You’ve given me what I need. I’m gonna go and do this. Here, it’s done.” and being able to rely on that is so nice. Aqua, of course, comes to mind, Aqua is, well, Aqua is very well organized. Aqua’s just a very organized person.

so just being an organized person helps so much.

just kind of a full- fully planned out plans and execution. It’s very nice. And the other person I really wanna shout out is Taro. Taro is a very driven person, and Right now, they are the only person writing articles for zooey.pub consistently. there was a team of two. They always thought that they might get more people eventually to just sort of fill out the roster of people contributing, but that just never happened because the idea of, like, we need people who are going to write something every week, you know, like a, a writer, there’s not people who…

Th- that is a, that’s a quality of person that doesn’t really exist, especially not when not being paid, you know?

so Taro is extremely driven, always just… I don’t know how they work so hard, to be honest. And so, you know, all of the people that you see constantly all the time on the podcast, they’re there because they’re always…

Th- they’re the people who are driven to contribute consistently. You know, Steve contributes very consistently. Steve brings in, some of his friends who, who contribute consistently. The consistency is really what I need,

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: regular contributor. I need people that I can rely on to get things done when they need to get done.

and we’re very fortunate to have a lot of people like that right now.

Zooey: Yes, you’ve done a phenomenal job doing double duty of describing exactly what it is you’re looking for and also lovingly shouting out the cast. So that is, that is pleasant to hear.

Toggle: Yeah. I will say, you know, not everyone needs to contribute consistently. so like advice if you’re trying to just contribute one thing, maybe make sure that whatever you’re contributing is finished. It’s very good to have like a fully thred-fledged idea or at least like a sketch, like an actual something that we can be tangible.

I like getting ideas from people, but sometimes they’re, they’re not fully evolved and that makes it really hard

Zooey: Oh, yes, yes, I’m familiar with that

Toggle: yeah, to actually conceptualize how we could actually do that.

Zooey: It’s different between coming up with a concept for a play and then actually having a script with which to

Toggle: Exactly

Zooey: speak the lines and such.

Toggle: Exactly. if you’re doing, music, you know, finish it

I guess. Um, I, I think The other thing that, for the people that we have on doing music and, and regular contributing, they’re constantly in communication even if they’re not part of our team. Like, if you wanna contribute a lot of stuff, if you do a lot of music, stay in contact, whether that’s by email or Telegram or Signal.

that constant contact allows me to also think of you and be like, “Oh, here’s a person who’s contributed music before.” I can go to them and see if they wanna participate in the music episode or, if someone writes scripts, I can go, “Oh, I remember this script that was really good.”

I can see if they wanna, contribute to this Halloween episode where we wanna get scripts from different people. Um, so that consistent communication, try not to just send in something once and then, and then disappear, because then things get lost in the noise. Um, so you wanna be someone who is present.

Zooey: Yes, and I imagine there’s a degree to which, I, I don’t imagine it’s been the case that often where somebody’s taken it personally if something hasn’t been accepted. But can also imagine that there’s like a little bit of a sting or if something gets forgotten even, not even so much as rejected but forgotten, and there’s a little bit of sting that comes from that.

And I suppose you’re speaking to the fact that sometimes things do get lost in the noise and it is important to be there and show yourself and not just put something into the stream of media and then say, “I’ve done the thing and now the thing is done.” I suppose there is a sort of need for that sort of consistency.

Toggle: Right. being in communication allows also the ability to build trust and also to get feedback. So if there’s something that’s like, “I have this idea,” and then you, we start actually talking about stuff, and then you’re like, “Hey, what about that idea?” It goes, “Oh, well, you know, I don’t know if we can use it for this reason.”

You go, you can then be able to, like, tweak it or, or change things and things like that. sometimes also, like, people will come up with ideas and I just, I, I can’t understand the vision.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: So I look at it and like, “Interesting. I filed that away into the ideas, but I

don’t know what to do with it.” You know, Trill is wanting to contribute a lot. I think the first thing is to be in contact. I think Trill talks to Taro, which is fine. that is, that is a valid way to stay in contact.

Zooey: I only laughed because it, the, the way that that sounded for a moment said, “Trillanly speaks with Taro,” which I suppose is fine. Taro is pleasant enough.

Toggle: I suppose it’s fine if you just wanna talk to Taro.

Zooey: suppose.

Toggle: fine, I guess.

Zooey: But yes, uh, not to,

not to crudely interrupt

Toggle: that what I mean is that like, you know, not everything you say to Taro gets back to me.

Zooey: Mm, yes.

yes.

Toggle: if your interest is like contributing to the podcast, you know, I’m s- I’m stepping back a bit, but there is still no replacement showrunner.

I

can’t leave, right? Because there are people that I trust to get things done as long as I ask them to do it.

Zooey: Mm-hmm. Yes

Toggle: But the idea of actually like starting from the beginning and following through from beginning to end and then publishing, I still don’t have that person yet.

so that means de facto, if you wanna contribute to the podcast somehow or another, whatever you’re contributing has to get to me.

Zooey: This episode is secretly a job posting.

Toggle: right?

Zooey: Welcome to the end of the episode. Are you available?

Toggle: You are… Here’s the description of the job. You are driven, consistent. You are able to type really fast, proficient in Word and Excel,

Zooey: Bachelor’s. Associate’s is fine

Toggle: a four-year college degree preferred. A two-year degree is fine.

Zooey: But yes, I think you’ve, you’ve, you’ve very c- sufficiently, uh, described what it is that, uh, you’re looking for. And that’s not only for the people. It, it is useful for the future of a project that isn’t just led by one person, but is a collaborative project to know what sorts of collaborators w- might need to come as the project grows or even changes inasmuch as time passes.

We’ve been doing this for eight or so years, and so it’s not always going to be the same group of people, and this is– this sort of thing is good to know.

Toggle: Right, and you know, people burn out. I’ve burned out. The reason you don’t hear from me a lot is ‘cause I’m tired of it. It’s a lot of work to do this consistently for years on end, and to find people who are willing to do that, that’s even harder.

so if you feel like you’re actually willing to, do that and contribute, the first thing to do is prove that you can do it by contributing consistently. otherwise it’s just like, “Hey, I wanna help out on the podcast,” and you’ve got the drive and the want, but Can I rely on you?”

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: ultimately the question.

Zooey: Makes sense.

I shall move on to the third question then. I know personally that, that you are somebody who has creative projects outside of this podcast.

but the social climate in regards to zoophilia, it’s not incentivized to come out w- across every platform as a zoophile, as someone who does creative projects just at this point in time with the current, uh, social climate. However, what sorts of things would you need to see specifically before you’d consider being comfortable doing something like that?

Or if you want to see more zoophile visibility in the world, what sorts of things do you think you would need to see within society first to make that a comfortable transition for creatives?

Toggle: , What do I look for before I expect people to be able to be out as a, like a performer or creative person?

Zooey: Or somebody who isn’t specifically tied with, uh, zoo activism, but somebody who nevertheless has a social presence online as a creator or even just somebody who has a lot of followers and such

Toggle: That’s a really tough question, and I don’t know if I have a really good answer. There’s a certain point where things tip in a direction. and once you hit that tipping point, it becomes safer to try, shall we say, more transgressive things and, and be open about those types of things. I think right now we’re in a social conservative swing, where the dominant culture is socially conservative, and I guess I would wait for the pendulum to swing back the other way to dominantly socially progressive.

the problem is as a creative, and, you know, we, we talked– we get even emails from furries about this kind of thing, where they’re like, “ I’m afraid to do this because it’s my livelihood. Like, it’s the money. I, like, I rely on money in order to live, and I use my creative talents towards that.

And if, you know, if this puts my livelihood in jeopardy, there’s no way.”

Oh, I don’t remember his name. There was a metal singer. He was in Attack Attack! and he was in, um, Beartooth. I think he’s still in Beartooth.

and he recently came out as gay, he spent his entire career up to this point in the closet,

Zooey: Oh, I think this has

escaped my radar

Toggle: like, I think he said it contributed to his drinking problem.

He’s married to a woman who apparently is very supportive of him coming out.

Zooey: I suppose off the top of my head, the only person within that, realm of music industry that, uh, is out and gay is, uh, Robert Halford of Judas Priest. But that’s, I think, quite literally the only person I can name off the top of my head

Toggle: Yeah, I mean, Gerard Way i- isn’t really metal, but

definitely, I think he was outed. I think he was, uh, also in the closet and then someone outed him and he was very upset about it. but like, if we’re at a point where people are still afraid to come out as gay,

it makes it hard for me to recommend like, you know, now is the time to be openly zoo, because it really could affect your livelihood as a creative person.

Zooey: Yeah, I see what you’re speaking to. there’s some things require patience in order to see the most efficiency

Toggle: Right. It’s gonna take some time, and also I think the climate needs to swing back in the other direction. But also I think, there’s really nothing wrong with having multiple projects. and, musicians do this all the time. they work on one thing, they do something else. You know, sometimes you don’t know that it’s the same person, uh, and that’s fine.

There’s no reason you can’t stretch your creative wings, and, try things that are in the realm of activism while also doing creative things elsewhere. Some of the things y- you might do are, you know, kind of adjust your style a little bit. Um, you know, and this is gr- actually great because it allows you to kind of break out of your normal creative box and think about, you know, what is it that defines my style over here, and what do I do differently over here, to make a difference?

I’m kind of pulling this from talking to artists who I’ve worked with, analyzing their own style and being like, “Oh, I, this looks too much like me.” And I’m like, “Okay, but what, what, what does that mean? how do you adjust? And do you need to adjust?”

I think maybe the hardest thing is, is voice. You know, if

Zooey: Yeah, that, that’s, yes.

Toggle: you know, voices can be very distinctive. I have a very distinctive voice, you know?

Zooey: I believe I do as

well.

Toggle: Right. You would know if you heard me.

Zooey: that, that answer does make sense. It isn’t a– I suppose at the heart of it, I am handing you a crystal ball and trying to ask you to predict the future to some degree, which is not a skill that is altogether easy or possible

Toggle: Right. I think the social climate needs to swing back in the other direction. you’re waiting for a tipping point. You’re waiting for the point where a certain amount of the population is okay with something, or at least fed up enough with something that they’re open to something different.

And I think in the meantime, there’s really no reason not to continue to stretch your creative wings, and, do the things that make your heart happy. And all you really just need to do is, is think about like, “Okay, what makes me unique? And maybe I wanna try something different that’s also unique.”

I think that it’s an opportunity to stretch the boundaries that you are comfortable working in and try something new, and that’s something that creative people should embrace

Zooey: Well, that is very well put, I think.

Toggle: Mm-hmm.

Zooey: And I suppose, uh, to round this up, I have just one last question for you this evening. This one is finally a short one.

Toggle: Mm-hmm.

Zooey: Who is your biggest unexpected furry crush?

Toggle: Unexpected furry crush? Wow.

Zooey: hardest question.

Toggle: What do you mean by unexpected? What does

Zooey: W-

Toggle: mean?

Zooey: well, it could mean many things. It could be quite, uh, like a hear me out hot take, or perhaps a crush that you have that nobody in their right mind would expect

Toggle: Oh, fascinating. Okay Hear me out. I like Peppy Hare.

Zooey: I’m going to be perfectly candid with you. Fully expected something along those lines.

Toggle: Um, here’s a, here’s an even hotter take. Pig Madangar,

Zooey: Okay. Mm-hmm

Toggle: scumbag. Absolute piece of filth. But I have a thing for pigs.

Zooey: I

very much so am a porcine enthusiast. Porcine is the correct word in this case, correct?

Toggle: Oh, yes, yes.

Zooey: I believe so. Sus

Toggle: Uh, yeah. Sus.

Zooey: Sus.

Toggle: Sus about the sus

Zooey: Sus. I am quite suspicious about the sus bitches. Thank you

Toggle: Anyway, he’s total scumbag. He’s definitely not someone you could have a relationship with. oh, it might be fun for a fling.

Zooey: Mm-hmm.

Toggle: I like pigs

Zooey: May I indulge?

Toggle: Yes, yes

Zooey: Okay. I haven’t answered any of the questions I’ve posed this, uh, entire podcast episode, but to round it out, I shall also answer this question. And this isn’t particularly furry, I’d say, but I have seen him on E621, so it

counts.

Toggle: okay. Okay

Zooey: So you’re familiar with Halo, the video game, right?

Toggle: I am

Zooey: Are you familiar with the Arbiter?

Toggle: No, no

Zooey: He’s the, he’s the, Sangheili alien, so one of the elites, but he’s a playable character in Halo 2 and 3, and I just have a really big crush on him.

Toggle: All right, so he’s an alien. I

Zooey: the alien. I’ll have to show you a picture later, but he also has this very stoic, tortured energy about him where I just feel so bad and I want to hold him

Toggle: Oh, no.

Zooey: My other, uh, one that people often forget but then understand is the hippie penguin from “Surf’s Up,” Big Z I like

Toggle: Wow. Okay, okay. I’ll, I’ll– I can, I can see that. That’s fun.

Zooey: Thank you. Thank you

Well, I can’t think of a better way to jump into the next part of the script. is there anything else you’d like to say before we conclude this section of the interview, dear Toggle?

Toggle: I don’t want to dissuade anyone from contributing by scaring them into thinking, , it’s so hard, , the bar is so high. , If you have one thing that you wanna contribute, please go ahead and do it. just do it.

It doesn’t matter. It’s really about if you want to be a consistent contributor that the bar gets set way higher.

but, we’re always wanting to hear things from, from the audience and from the zoo community. we do have a Howl-o-ween episode coming up, and we’re really hoping to get some new story submissions this year.

So if you’re a writer and you wanna try your hand at a Howl-o-ween story, we’re we’re waiting to hear from you

Zooey: Oh, that is very well put, and I think, uh, yes, that is slowly creeping up. I do believe we are in the last month of summer very shortly here, and summer has kind of come and gone at a rapid bullet speed

Toggle: Way too fast.

way

too

fast this year.

Zooey: which I am personally okay with because summer is where I do a majority of my actual work, and so I’m very excited to have days off again.

Toggle: Well, enjoy your rest, Zooey. Thank you for hosting this episode, uh,

Zooey: Oh, well, you’re very welcome, and

thank you for the lovely conversation

Toggle: Yeah, likewise!

Outro

Zooey: My my my, what a magnificent menagerie of microphone-manning mzoophiles; bright, charming, humble, every one of us exceptionally sexually attractive, humble, kind, humble, and well spoken. Or at least, willing to speak and then find out in post what was well spoken and what we should cut. Mmmm. We really can go the fuck on.

Have we learned something here today? Actually what was the original impetus for- Oh yes, Trill’s email about how to get involved! I hope we’ve all learned about how to get involved. If you’re into that. We’re certainly into you! If you’re into that.

In any case, this brings us to the end of our show for today, and so someone must say to you all; Thanks friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou

The next full moon is the Sturgeon Moon, and we will be back on the high seas once again. It’s bound to be musical, so don’t miss it.

…

Oh. I really am the only host here right now. Outstanding. Double the Zooey airtime for our time remaining.

(door noises)

Toggle: Hey hey! I’m here. Where are we?

Zooey: The outro, dear. “You can subscribe-“

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our zooey RSS feed, found at rss.zoo.wtf! You can also check out our extensive bonus content at bonus.zoo.wtf. If you want to show your support financially, head on over to donate.zoo.wtf.

Zooey: Find us on BlueSky at, you guessed it, @zoo.wtf. And, if you want to get in touch, you can email us at [email protected], or simply use the contact form on our website. If you do email us directly, please be sure to let us know if we can use your email on the air, and do provide an alias we can use as well. If you’re unsure of what we need, just use the contact form on the website for guidance.

Toggle: Share this episode with someone who has good taste in tails, or who wants to get involved in a zooey project but isn’t sure where to start.

Zooey: My name is Zooey, and I still have several more syllable-dense sentences to serenade your listening souls with before they cut my microphone for this episode.

Toggle: Uhhh I don’t know about several, but anyways, I’m Toggle, a big, grumpy rat. And you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Zooey: Be you; Be wonderful. You’re different, and that’s not only okay, it’s important.

Toggle: Stay defiant fellow zoos. We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon.

Both: Awoo!